Are most bi guys bi?


Ashamed to be Gay

Kissing Tim Poster
Kissing Tim Poster
by

troycap
This “Kissing Tim” poster
reminds me of the
“Castro Clone look.”
Anyone remember that look?

Read: Bi Now Means Masculine And Not Bisexual

This article revisited: El 10 de junio de 2014. Hola. In these increasingly conservative days, it seems that more and more gay guys are ashamed of their sexuality. How sad. We really are heading backwards in many ways despite some advances. Mi amigo said I could have titled this article, “Ashamed to be Gay” and that might be a more accurate title. I agree. He and I have certainly noticed this increasing “Bi Fad” on the site I call ClosetList for awhile where most gay guys don’t say they’re gay but rather many if not most gay guys seemed ashamed of their sexuality by the language they use and the way they write their personal sex ads. They say they’re bi, even though most of them are likely gay based on the experience of mi amigo (see the article below). I did a search on ClosetList to see how many self-identifying bi guys there were posting under the gay “Men Seeking Men” category in the San Francisco Bay Area as opposed to self-identifying gay guys. I did my search based on the keywords in guy’s ads. Here are the results as of this writing:

Ads with the word “bi”: 977
Ads with the word “gay”: 368
Ads with the word “straight”: 520

As you can see, the word gay has the least number of ads under the gay section, Men Seeking Men. How odd. Doesn’t that strike you as a bit strange?
(What’s Wrong With Gay Dick?) That’s followed by guys claiming to be “straight” when they are really bisexual or they are gay guys (and most pretending to be bi) looking for “straight” guys. There’s this craze for sucking “straight” dick with some gay guys. (My Question: How is “straight” dick different than any other dick?) I think one of the newest and most shallow fads is to call yourself something that you’re not. Call yourself “bi.” I think more and more muchachos are using the word “bi” because everybody else is using it in their ad so follow the sheeple. Just like using the ubiquitous word “discreet,” to fit in and to appear more “straight.” Because we all know how bad and terrible it is to be gay. Gay is bad. It’s bad, it’s bad. [Full-blown sarcasm intended]. “Gay is bad” is unfortunately the impression I get from reading many if not most of those ads on ClosetList. As some states (including California) now have same-gender marriage legal how ironic that it’s now bad to be gay in so many guy’s minds. So let’s all call ourselves “bi” even though many/most of us aren’t bi. Just say we are, because a guy is closer to being “straight” if he says he’s bi, seems to be the thinking. We have some fucked up in the head closet case gay people here in San Francisco (of all places!) and the Bay Area based on these ads on ClosetList. I didn’t realise there were that many (sexually) fucked up people out there, at least here. It’s very strange. As the gay populace becomes more and more conservative, it’s back in the closet time or call yourself bi. And pretend to be a “straight” (obnoxious) jock, rather than saying gym-toned or athletic. I remember after I came out decades ago, my many amigos and I didn’t go through all of this gay shame nonsense. We had none of that. Not one of us. But today, Gay Shame/Gay Discreet is happening in the former Gay Mecca known as San Francisco and the Bay Area. This is also happening in other US cities from reading those personal ads. There has got to be something in the water. Chau.—rosa barrio

El 28 de marzo de 2014. Hola. I ran into mi amigo/my friend a couple of days ago and the timing was good because I wanted to ask him his opinion about something: Are most bi guys bi? Here’s what he told me:

He’s a Queer boy and not bi (I already knew that). But when he does non-paid phone sex on his own—he’s worked in the phone sex industry—he told me that consistently when he talks with a guy who identifies as “bi” that the guy hangs up on him whenever he (mi amigo) tries to talk about chicks or pussy. The guys who are supposedly bi that he has on the phone consistently only want to talk about sex with guys (jacking off, sucking dick and fucking). He said it’s very rare to talk with a bi guy about fucking or eating pussy because the bi guys he’s talked with show no interest in that at all on the phone and hang up on mi amigo. The call can start out initially about chicks or “banging some girl” but then quickly goes to guys and if mi amigo tries to go back to chicks and to talk about pussy, that’s when the hang up occurs and the call ends. The so-called “bi” guy hangs up. Consistently. Mi amigo says he tells phone sex guys that he’s bi but he really isn’t. He says that is not uncommon. He’s Queer and has never had sex with a female and has no interest in females. I asked him: Could you have sex with a female? He said: Oh I suppose I could but my sexual orientation is Queer so that’s where my sexual feelings are the stronger. I could choose to have sex with a female and that would fall under the less-strong/weaker “sexual preference” category, but I wouldn’t necessarily enjoy it because I’m not into females and he said, “I’m a vegetarian and I don’t eat or like fish.” He continued: I would just be going through the motions if I were to have sex with a female. Many hetero guys are thinking about guys when they’re fucking their girlfriends or wives. (That’s true.) All that makes sense to me.

He said he reads CL ads regularly and he too has seen all of the supposed “bi guys” on CL (the site I’ve written some articles about). I said, do you think most of them are bi? He said: well they’re clearly looking for guys in their ads because they are on the “men for men” category—and often the “girlfriend is away or out of town”—so some of them could be bi or they are calling themselves “bi” as code for butch, masculine and that obnoxious “straight-acting” heteronormative language that some closet-case gay guys use. I think “bi” is a fantasy for many guys who are not really bi, he said.

He continued: Years ago when I was doing phone sex I talked many times with a guy on the East Coast (of the US/los Estados Unidos/The Cesspool) who was bi and all we talked about was fucking and eating pussy. We talked many times on a phone sex line. He was a hot guy to talk with. Then years later, I had one other guy who claimed to be hetero and he was married to a female, but he was really bi (she didn’t know he’s bi) in the true sense of the word. After months of talking with him in phone sex conversations about dick and pussy we were getting too close and I had to cut it off because I sensed he was trying to become my boyfriend. But since then, whenever I’ve tried to replicate a conversation with another guy who claims to be bi, it hasn’t worked since the guy only wants to talk about dick. My new strategy is that when a guy tells me he’s bi and if I want to keep him on the phone because I like his voice and how he sounds, I make a point of not talking about pussy or chicks at all and that works well. They don’t hang up on me when I avoid talking about chicks.

Interesting.

So I then asked him since we were in San Francisco’s Castro: As the Castro becomes more and more “straight,” do you see GLBTQs going back in the closet in order to “fit in” and “be discreet?” (and that word “discreet” is saturated throughout CL ads). His response: I’ve noticed the hetero couples walking by us as we’ve been standing here with their in-your-face we’re straight “look” (for lack of a better word). I hope GLBTQs don’t go back in the closet but I could see that happening. I think it’s already happening. Or will gay guys start “dating girls” and fucking pussy because they think that’s the “in” thing to do now and to fit in with the herd? Will they think: Gay is out and hetero is in so let me “turn hetero” (as if that’s fucking possible!). He continued: To that I say, “Fucking idiots and fucked up in the head.” They could do that (“turn hetero” so to speak) but they would only be back to living in the closet and living a lie and pretending to be something they’re not—what exactly was the former Gay Rights Movement for and about anyway?!—since their sexual orientation is gay. They could do that, but I’m seeing the same things you’re seeing. I’m seeing a guy hooked up with a female walking down Castro hand-in-hand and he looks like a Queer boy to me. (Yes, I’ve written about that too). He continued: Like you say, it’s a weird time in the US and in San Francisco. (I say: You got that right!) He continued: What is this place turning into? He said: I call it a collapse of our society and for those paying attention there are many indicators of that happening right before us. (He’s correct). Chau.—rosa barrio

One recent indicator:

How climate change will acidify the oceans

19 comments on “Are most bi guys bi?

  1. RUkiddingmeChico?

    Are most bi guys bi? Hell no. They’re closet cases. I’ve dealt with some of them. I’ve been on “Closet List” too. Did a search many times over weeks for “bi” in the two categories “men for men” and “men for women.” Far, far more guys identify as “bi” in the “men for men” category than in the “men for women.” If they were really “bi” it would be more evenly split. Guys are identifying as “bi” because they don’t want to identify as gay because of their internalized homophobia, even tho they ARE gay. I got together with someone like that. He only wanted to watch gay porn and told me “who needs chicks?”

  2. Alejandro

    Hooooola. I saw this bi sex personal the other night that intrigued me. The dude said he’s a depressed bi guy who wants pussy without all the baggage that comes with it.

    He started out with he was looking for a non-clingy girl friend and one who wasn’t all about money and expecting him to pay for everything like they do. Said he was looking for a girl who is not shallow because they want a guy who is tall, has a good job where he makes lots of money, and will potentially be marriage material. This dude has been unemployed for 18 months and told he’s overqualified. He had some close deaths in his family which has depressed him. He’s thought of hiring a sex worker but has anxiety over not being able to keep a hard on. Hasn’t jacked off in 10 days.

    Said he’s never been good with women and never had a girlfriend in high school and didn’t lose his virginity until he was almost 20 years old. He posted his ad in the men looking for men category because all the ads with women looking for men are bull shit. He said women really are evil.

    Sounds like to me the dude is trying to force it. He’s not into women but thinks he supposed to be into pussy, a common problem.

  3. Castro Local

    Interesting hearing your experience and Matthew’s. I’m gay and don’t have much experience with bisexuals.

    Now that they’ve taken down the rainbow flags on Castro St, do you think they’ll replace them with the straight pride flag? Considering the stink they raised over the transgender pride flag flying for just one day at Milk Plaza a couple yrs ago I don’t expect to see that or the bisexual pride flag. What do you think?

    1. rosa_barrio Post author

      Hola Castro Local, well, they would certainly not replace them with the transgender or the bisexual pride flags. I don’t want to give them any ideas so I won’t write what I’m thinking. Other than to say I’ve come to expect the worst from these people considering how they’ve sanitised/ruined The Castro.

      Related:

      The Sanitising of San Francisco’s Castro Has Been Completed

      More sanitising of San Francisco’s Castro

      The Gay Populace: The (new) Tool of The Right

      San Francisco’s last gay gym fading to straight

      The Conservative Gay Heteronormative Populace

  4. Matthew

    Thanks for posting my comment. I that there are many types of bisexuality and bisexual people. The men of my generation that I knew who came out did not fit the whole masculine equals bisexual idea. A lot of us came out because we identified with gay men more than straight men because of our feminity and attraction to men and wanted and needed feminine men to mirror back our sense of self, but with the added frustration that we were attracted to women as well which meant we did not fit well into the gay mainstream. So it has been for many of us a wonderous but often frustrating journey of not fitting in.

  5. D8

    Don’t know how I missed this post when it first went up. Interesting topic. Reading Matthew’s comment left me with the theme there’s still so much to be done. I live in San Francisco and the hold-outs of the gay community here think there’s nothing else to be done and all’s been accomplished, so time to party. That’s how it seems to me. There are a few gay individual activists still here doing what they can but as a whole I don’t see people doing anything or even concerned. It all stopped after the US Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage.

  6. Matthew

    I am a bisexual guy who came out in high school at 17 years old was kicked out of my father’s home, called faggot in the streets of my home town of 6000 people in the rural US and made my way to a big city, Chicago only to find out that I did not exist. By 19, I and my bisexual girlfriend were both kicked out of LGBU and told not to come back until we came out the rest of the way. This is not unusual many bi guys and girls have been very marginalized when we reached out for support from the gay and lesbian community.

    I have dated a total of 14 different women and had sex with a total of 26 different women. I have also had sex with 20 different men. When I dated 6 men I never hid the fact and endured ridicule from straight people and gay people alike for calling myself bisexual while doing so. I have also been very safe in my behavior as well.

    But this ridicule and harassment has occurred in professional situations as well. And I have curated one of the largest festivals on sexual diversity in the country. Wrote plays on bisexuality and am a bisexual activist. Calling myself bisexual and behaving bisexually has given me absolutely no social or economic benefits. It wins me no brownie points when dating men and women and in more than one situation ended my relationships due to misunderstandings, hense these days I try my best to date only other bisexual men and women and trans men and women.

    I really wish sometimes that I was straight or gay. But I am actually neither so I make the best of it and luckily now at 43 am finding a larger bisexual and genderqueer community than in my youth. When you write about queer looking men dating women, well guess what bisexual men don’t look nor act straight. A good friend who is bi in the San Fran area also dates mostly women and looks very nice in a dress as he publically dresses in women’s and men’s clothing. We are in fact not trying to be straight or gender normative.

    It is difficult being an out bisexual guy. Especially a bi guy with a mental disability. There are in fact a lot (not all) of bisexual men and women who are on the autism spectrum or have bipolar conditions and other neural atypical conditions which make trying to live up to heteronormative and gender-normative standards difficult, hense I rejected those standards rather early in life.

    Bisexual men of the past are generally erased but they include John Cage, Robert Rauschenberg, Cy Twombly, Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac, Paul Goodman, Tomas Mann, Henry Miller, and many others. But we are in fact erased as straight or gay.

    Luckily there are a lot of bisexual women out there who have rejected heteronormative and gender normative ideas as well and therefore we often date each other.

    Many bi guys prefer the same gender but are still bisexual and are very marginalized within the gay community. And bi women are marginalized in the lesbian community.

    Although I believe that some gay men try to be bi or claim a bi identity to be cool, I would be very surprised if it is to the degree being claimed in your article. But I know it happens because a Transman I met told me he met a young gay man trying to be bisexual and it wasn’t working bellow the belt for him.

    But I write you mainly out of frustration. In my generation the bisexual population is in fact very marginalized and it has been crazy making for me to be questioned for 25 years of my life. In fact it has often made me isolated depressed and exhausted. Most of the bisexual men I know are in opposite gender relationships but I know many closeted bi guys who are actively pursuing the same gender who can not come out because this whole debate over our existence thing.

    My request is before writing another article about bisexual men, that you actually take the time to talk to bisexual men and help this segment of the LGBT community gain real visibility and legitimacy because being de-legitimized is literally killing us off slowly.

    Bisexual men and women have the highest suicide rates, highest poverty rates, highest sexual victimization rates, highest mental health problems than any other segment of the LGBT community.

    Furthermore many bisexual men and women are trans or on the trans spectrum. Some of us take a life time trying to understand our trans feelings and will transition later in life. I myself fall somewhere in between gender as well and have a very difficult time coping with that reality. I am both deeply masculine and deeply feminine and it has taken me years trying to integrate such a broad spectrum of gender affect.

    One of my biggest problems is I refuse to go in the closet regardless of the gender that I date. And many women that I dated in the past did not want to share the stigma of dating an out bisexual guy. But I can’t go back in because I never want a 19 year old wandering around the streets of Chicago asking “where are all the bisexual people, I need to find them.”

    Bisexual men and women need to be out so we can in fact find one another, just like gay people need to find one another. So please if you can write a different article that actually helps this population, I and many of my bisexual friend’s would greatly appreciate it.

    Sincerely,
    Matthew

    P.S. the comment that bisexual guys are bigots is way off the mark and we deserve much better.

    1. rosa_barrio Post author

      Hola Matthew, gracias for your comment.

      You wrote:

      “the comment that bisexual guys are bigots is way off the mark and we deserve much better.”

      Well just to be clear, I did not say that. That was written by commenter Drew. The word “bigots” was not in my article.

      I’d like to respond to this that you wrote:

      “When you write about queer looking men dating women, well guess what? Bisexual men don’t look nor act straight.”

      I think the many guys who call themselves a “Jock” on the site I call ClosetList would disagree with that. Many of them claim to be bi in their personal sex ads and they’re looking to connect with a guy. Are they really bi or just saying that because they think “bi” sounds more masculine (or more “jock”) to them than saying they’re gay? The pics in their ads often show themselves in a jockstrap, a baseball cap, buffed/worked-out as they try to appear macho and “straight”/heteronormative. These are some of the same guys that talk about being discreet, and/or DL (down low) or straight-acting.

      The article I wrote above was based on my experience and the experience of mi amigo/my friend with bisexuals. I have tried to talk with some bisexual guys over the years but they didn’t seem that open to talking about themselves, so I didn’t push it and really didn’t get anywhere. These days, it’s very difficult to talk with people at all since most are distracted with squinting day and night at that tiny screen embedded in their hand (their stupidphone/”smartphone” addiction – Related: Smartphones are transforming society into a sea of stupid) and they have about a 4-second attention span.

      Your comment can serve as the article you suggested I write. Gracias for your comment. Chau.

      Related:

      What was the ultimate goal of the Gay Rights Movement?

      Can gay people live anywhere today?

      The Discreet Gay Guys

    2. SF-Resident

      I’m asking this somewhat in jest, but mostly serious since pink barrio has written about it since we’ve noticed this around SF. Do bisexuals have the height requirement that straights have that the female has to be 3 heads shorter than the guy? Thanks.

      1. Matthew

        Not at all my longest relationship with a woman she was 5’1″ and I am 6’3″. My second longest relationship with a woman she was 6’2″. It is of course nice if you have a small girlfriend because you can have sex standing up. But having a tall girlfriend is also good because you don’t need to stoop down when you kiss. Also there is a lot of “mother nurturer” feelings that arise when you are with a woman who is big, voluptuous and tall.

        1. I'm the L in GLBTQ

          If I’m understanding you correctly it sounds like you’re promoting chauvinism that this blog has talked a lot about with heterosexuals, because you said,

          >>>Also there is a lot of “mother nurturer” feelings that arise when you are with a woman who is big, voluptuous and tall. <<<

          I don't know where to look for it but this blog talked about the heterosexual couples and that they don't act like equals. I'm paraphrasing what the article said…..You'll see the tall guy with the short female and she's acting unequal to him and as if he's her father and she's his little daughter, or subservient. You talk about the tall females and "mother nurturer." I guess a bisexual guy either ends up with a mother figure (tall) or a daughter figure (short) rather than a female equal to him. With my partner, she and I are equals. I'm not talking about sexual fetishes here.

          1. Matthew

            No I don’t believe it is chauvinism I am more of a bisexual lesbian than a bisexual man and am beginning that process. I will likely be Male to Androgyny rather than full transition. At age 6 I thought I was a boy and a girl and then chose to be a boy.

            Actually in both cases these two women were attracted to me because I became a mother figure for both of them as well. And we took turns mothering each other.

            I also don’t believe it is chauvinism for straight men really. People will have associations with the people that they choose. Without some degree of projection we don’t have attraction.

            I gay friend considers his husband the “brother he never had and the father he always wanted.” We often choose partners that help heal us.

            1. Smothering in San Francisco Tech

              I don’t know about that. It seems to me that it’s best to be “healed” and to know one’s self and to love oneself before beginning a relationship. Many people do it backwards and begin the relationship first and then they wonder why they have trouble….often ending up in dysfunctional situations, including domestic violence. I was walking along Market Street in San Francisco and overheard three young women talking behind me. One of them said, “love is war.” It turned out she was talking about how often her guy beats her and she stays with him and accepts it. She doesn’t sound like she loves herself nor was she “healed” before getting involved in a dysfunctional relationship with him.

              pink barrio, I really like your site. Your comment section is so pretty. I’ve never seen one like it and you have no trolls! How do you manage that! It’s an actual intellectual discussion about something which is hard to find on other sites.

              1. bianca

                what a shame. i agree with your comment. that guy that she chose and who is beating her isn’t helping to heal her !!

    3. Alejandro

      I was recently on a phone sex line and the guy I was talking with told me he was a bottom. Then he asked me if I was gay or bi. I said gay. He clicked me off. I guess he wanted a bi guy fucking him in his fantasy. Is there a difference between a gay or bi guy fucking a bottom gay guy? Or is the turnon because the bi guy also fucks women?

  7. Drew

    I think you and your friend have nailed it. I’m queer and from my experience with gay men who were bi or who said they were bi, they were the most bigoted of people.

    1. Dan

      I think I know what Drew is getting at. The bi guys who come off as rednecks or bigots. I’ve seen a few of those type of ads. They come off as hard-asses. They’re not the majority of bi guys but they’re out there.

Fin. The End.