No dykes in San Francisco. Gay guys marrying lesbians to be “straight” couples. Trans marrying trans to be “straight” couple. Insanity.

Hola a todos. As the Conservatory is about to reopen following the holidays, I thought I’d fill the time with this article.

A San Franciscan wrote a comment on one of my articles and then he sent me a more detailed e-mail. I thought his comment deserved more attention so I’m posting it as this article below with my minor edits. Here’s what he wrote:

I’m a San Francisco resident. I was walking down the street in Upper Market here in January 2020 and I noticed a number of baby strollers on the other side of the street. It’s a common sight in San Francisco these days. As I was watching these baby strollers going by, a bull dyke slightly ahead of me looked back at me and started talking. She said, “It’s impossible to find dykes in San Francisco anymore.” We started talking. She was an interesting person. She was dressed in Old City clothes and her hair style was that of a 1990s to early 2000 look. I told her that what few gay men there are left in San Francisco seemed to have thrown away their gayness and turned straight and started marrying chicks. She said, “Lesbians are doing the same thing.” I was surprised to hear her say that because before I started reading pink barrio I thought I was the only person to notice this back to the closet strangeness and “be straight” life style of what was once an out and proud gay community. She used a word similar to assimilating but she said, “Bull dykes no longer look like dykes, they don’t even ride motorcycles anymore and they’re marrying guys. They’re mostly blond haired now and wear lingerie clothing 24/7 out and about and dance with straight men. You’d never catch me dressing like that or dating a guy” as she spit on the sidewalk in disapproval. She said, “It’s really sad. This used to be such a fun City.” Her last words to me were, “Can you believe all the baby strollers in this City?”

I thought about our chat for awhile after. Many people assume I’m straight for some reason but her gaydar picked up on me right away as gay. Then I thought about what I wish I would have told her that I saw about a month ago in a store here in SF. It was this guy who looked right out of the Eagle Bar, one of the South of Market leather gay men’s bars in the Old City. The guy was probably in his 30s or 40s. He was very handsome, wearing leather short-shorts and a black leather vest and had a trimmed beard. I noticed him because I haven’t seen any guys wearing leather short-shorts in years in SF, since the Old City. He was with a heavy-set blond chick who looked like a lesbian. She was wearing tight white pants and had a big butt. I looked at them for a bit because he looked so gay to me and right out of the Eagle. I used to go to the Eagle. I watched him start rubbing this woman’s arm and she got closer. That’s when things started looking weird. Rather than being a gay guy and a lesbian, they were looking more like they were a couple or maybe just starting their “straight” relationship. I saw a gay guy and a bull dyke type lesbian trying to be straight. I shook my head and walked away. I’d seen enough. I glanced their direction as I went around a corner and they were about to make out in the store. Who knew that gay guys would at some point hook up with lesbians to be straight? You’re not the only one to say it, pink barrio, but we’re living in a really insane world. My coworkers say that every day.

One thing I’ve noticed with your commenters, you have no trans commenters or none who will ever touch this topic. Makes me think that most of them are in the closet too. Thanks.—Derrick

My response: Derrick, as for your last paragraph, I’ve suspected the same for some time. I’ve even heard some trans people say how they can “pass as straight.” Then, last week I saw these two trans people who are essentially a heteronormative straight couple now. (roll eyes). They’re even having a baby to be perfectly heteronormative as “him and her” in an already over-populated world. If they wanted a child, why not adopt a child? There’s no shortage of very loving children waiting to be adopted and one can love an adopted child just as much as a child with one’s own DNA. Why do some (many?) trans females think they have to become breeders? Or is it that they feel they’re not a “complete woman” until they squeeze out a baby? And some say things such as, “Give me my uterus.” Well, what’s the purpose of a uterus? I never knew that deep down so many queers wanted to be “carbon copies” of the dysfunctional breeders. That wasn’t the thinking during our GL Rights Movement. At that time, we looked down on the straights. We didn’t worship them and model our lives after them as is happening today. Loco/Crazy. But I’ve seen other trans “straight” couples just like these such as the Gay Straight Couple. Insanity. I swear, all of those corporate trash at those corporatist queer organisations at the state and national level who ordered queers to “assimilate with the straights” when gay marriage became legal in the US should be fired en masse. What stupid and useless people! Apparently they didn’t think any of this through — no critical thinking skills? — as to its very possible consequences. They are directly responsible for the state of things today. When you tell a minority group to “assimilate” with the majority group what happens? What happens is what has happened. “Assimilate” means to blend in; don’t stick out and take on the characteristics of the majority. How does one “blend in?” By going back in the closet and pretending to be “straight” and part of the majority. Duh. Any damn fool should have seen this coming. At this point, is there much need for gay marriage now? Well I guess it’s useful for the few queer couples who haven’t gone back in the closet and who want to be married. But it serves no purpose whatsoever for the — what appears to be the majority — now insane queers with their deep-rooted gay shame and internalised homophobia who are marrying the opposite gender to live a heterosexual/straight life which they could have done to begin with, years ago. Gay guys didn’t need for gay marriage to become legal so they could marry a female. What fucking idiots! Chau.—el barrio rosa

The Power And Privilege Of ‘Passing’ As Straight: “Why, for a passing moment, did I secretly feel pleased that someone might think I was straight?”

The Gay Straight Couple

16 comments on “No dykes in San Francisco. Gay guys marrying lesbians to be “straight” couples. Trans marrying trans to be “straight” couple. Insanity.

  1. E in Sunnyvale

    It’s simply amazing how many things in my original comment have been completely ignored in most of the responses.

    The funniest part of it was how several here have been trying to put words in my mouth – that I’m supporting gays and lesbians going back in the closet. Wow, some serious lack of basic English language comprehension is at play here to be able to twist things in that direction.

    This is starting to sound so much like all the posts and comments I’ve seen here about going to some other website and posting a disagreeing comment or pointing out something concerning and is immediately attacked. Also interesting is that the attack comments don’t seem to be coming from regular posters.

    One key paragraph in my comment in particular that was conveniently ignored in most of the responses:

    There are some glaring misconceptions about trans people, and lack of understanding of what it means to actually BE trans in this article and in the comments. Gender is not the same thing as sexuality. Many trans women are attracted to men and are thus straight. Many trans women are attracted to women and are thus lesbians. The same rule applies to trans men. And many are bisexual, pansexual, and so on. I fail to see what’s hard to grasp about this. While transgender people do fall under the queer heading, it is a rather different issue than sexual attraction.

    The only reasonable reply was from PB, and to that I say, “fair enough, point taken into consideration.”

    1. D8

      There’s one thing that separates this site from most others and that pink barrio does not hesitate to bring up controversial topics that other sites refuse to touch whether anyone agrees with pb or not.

      E in Sunnyvale –

      I haven’t commented before now because I wasn’t sure how to say what I wanted to say without saying it the wrong way. I didn’t take everything that pink barrio wrote literally, but figuratively. Like trans couples being “breeders”, whether trans couples can actually breed or not they end of looking like breeders when they become parents.

      Here’s a question for you – Are all of these couples still queer in your opinion? In the queer category?

      When you have two people who started out as queer and then became trans. The guy becomes female. The female becomes male. Each marries another trans person. The now female marries a now male. The now male marries a now female. They look like and act like a heterosexual couple and are parenting. Are they still considered queer and a queer couple? That’s what I meant by not being able to wrap my mind around that. It’s a mind fuck. The same for that couple that pb linked to with the pregnant female to male. The now male stills has a vagina from when he was a female. His partner who is gay only has sex with him. That’s a gay male fucking vagina only. Like what pb said,, that’s what closeted gay guys do in heterosexual relationships. Is that couple still a queer couple? Both couples are heterosexual by their actions. It’s very confusing.

      Thanks for your reply.

      1. FedUp!

        I hadn’t commented for the same reason as D8. Whatever response E in Sunnyvale gives, is her view universally-held, or are there differing opinions on this. Just like not everybody agrees on anything else.

        My opinion is that if a female switches to male and a male switches to female, they get married, to me that definitely sounds like a heterosexual family and they lose their title of being queer. It reaffirms pink barrio’s topic of a sneaky way of going back in the closet essentially.

        I still don’t see where E in Sunnyvale has addressed the topic of queers going back in the closet. She skates around it. Makes me think she’s in the closet.

    2. castro local

      “Many trans women are attracted to men and are thus straight. ”

      if they are straight then that gives fuel to the argument that trans shouldn’t be part of the “lgbT community” (sorry pb, i know you can’t stand that acronym…i don’t like it either but had to use it to make my point). i’ve heard some queers say that trans should be their own group. case in point: straights are not “lgbT.”

      1. Former San Franciscan

        Exactly. What a heated topic. Last week at this time, I would have said that I understood trans pretty well. Today I’m more confused than ever before. Guess that’s all I’ll say so someone doesn’t jump down MY throat.

        I’ve seen porn videos of trans jocks – a female to male jock guy. He no longer has his boobs, has a beard, he’s masculine looking and they’re called jock guy. Looks like a guy except he has a pussy. In the vid I saw he was fucked by other jock guys. Most of the guys I saw fucking this guy and other trans jocks looked gay to me but I read that it’s mostly straight guys that fuck female to male guys with a pussy. That makes more sense since straight guys are into pussy. Or at least they were yesterday….maybe that changed overnight. Who knew that some straight guys today look gay. I’m joking of course because many “str8” guys today look gay to me and they probably are….in the closet.

  2. E in Sunnyvale

    Hello,
    A quote from the email you received from one of your readers:

    One thing I’ve noticed with your commenters, you have no trans commenters or none who will ever touch this topic. Makes me think that most of them are in the closet too. Thanks.—Derrick

    I’m not sure where this statement comes from – especially the assumption of being “in the closet”. Well, I do know of at least one trans woman who has been a regular reader and commenter on this blog for some years now. Me. There are many fine articles here that I simply don’t have anything to add to in comments, or perhaps some other reader has already said what I would have said. I don’t comment on every article, even though I do care strongly about queer issues. And I don’t normally indicate that I’m trans in every post… what would be the point? Should I shout it from rooftops with a megaphone every day too?

    From D8:
    I wasn’t aware of the trans marrying trans. That’s one that’s hard for me to wrap my mind around.

    I’m not sure what you mean. What is difficult about this? A trans man and trans woman or a trans man and trans man or trans woman and trans woman can’t get married? I don’t see where the contention is here…

    From PB:
    I’ve even heard some trans people say how they can “pass as straight.”

    and

    Why do some (many?) trans females think they have to become breeders? Or is it that they feel they’re not a “complete woman” until they squeeze out a baby? And some say things such as, “Give me my uterus.” Well, what’s the purpose of a uterus? I never knew that deep down so many queers wanted to be “carbon copies” of the dysfunctional breeders. That wasn’t the thinking during our GL Rights Movement. At that time, we looked down on the straights. We didn’t worship them and model our lives after them as is happening today. Loco/Crazy. But I’ve seen other trans “straight” couples just like these and have written about them. Insanity.

    I don’t even know where to begin here… but I’ll do my best to keep it polite and give the benefit of doubt.

    First off, we CAN’T become “breeders” – or at least, the medical science of providing trans women with a functional uterus is not there… yet. Not all of us want to. Some do, and I see nothing wrong with this. I personally do not want children (for the obvious reasons of overpopulation, climate change, and the slippery political slope the entire world seems to be heading rapidly down). If I did want children, I would certainly consider adoption – but in my case, as a trans woman, I would have no alternative.

    The comment about “passing as straight” I think is taken severely out of context. I’m not a fan of the term “passing” as it implies that trans people are “faking it” (at least in the minds of those with limited intelligence or limited understanding of trans issues). However, the term “passing” is often used for lack of a better term that, yes, essentially amounts to integration (I won’t use the word assimilation here as it has different connotations that certainly do not apply to all trans people) into society.

    There are some glaring misconceptions about trans people, and lack of understanding of what it means to actually BE trans in this article and in the comments. Gender is not the same thing as sexuality. Many trans women are attracted to men and are thus straight. Many trans women are attracted to women and are thus lesbians. The same rule applies to trans men. And many are bisexual, pansexual, and so on. I fail to see what’s hard to grasp about this. While transgender people do fall under the queer heading, it is a rather different issue than sexual attraction.

    And this says nothing about the difficulties of being transgender and trying to live in a world that hates us because we exist – we even get hate from the rest of the queer “community” on a regular basis. Try seeing how a straight trans woman feels when hoping to meet a man who will date a trans woman… Or a lesbian trans woman hoping to date another lesbian… and in either case, they “still see us as men”, regardless of how many years of hormone replacement therapy, extremely costly and often dangerous surgeries, and tremendous amounts of learning how to really be ourselves and let go of the societal conditioning and gender-role stereotyping that we’ve had beat into us over a lifetime.

    To PB and the commenters who have something to say about trans issues: if you’re not trans, it’s hard to understand what it’s like to BE trans. And it’s hard for me to explain it – it’s like trying to explain what the color blue looks like to someone who has been blind since birth. So if you haven’t lived a transgender life and experiences, then you really have no place passing judgement of any kind on trans people. Try empathy, at least, and maybe talk to and listen to what trans people have to say about it all before making your decisions about us.

    In the five years or so that I’ve been following this site, I’ve never felt uncomfortable or unwelcome here – until now… I’m not sure what else to say, so… happy new year… i guess.

    ~E

    1. el barrio rosa Post author

      Hola E,

      Well, the topic of this article was about queers going back in the closet in droves. That was the point being made. That’s the bottom line. I don’t see anything about that in your comment.

      I don’t see any group of queers as sacrosanct and above reproach or criticism. As examples in the article, I wrote about some trans and their behaviour and questionable remarks.

      I’ve said repeatedly that trans individuals should have the same rights as anyone else.

      The problem I have with some trans people — just as I have problems with some other queers and their behaviour and remarks — is when they ultimately choose what appears to be a “straight” life (a gay guy marrying a lesbian, for example) to be in a “straight” relationship ultimately. Or at least that’s the impression and appearance they give. What comes to mind for me is “back in the closet” which seems to be at an epidemic level these days.

      Straight is how society will see these trans people/couples I used as examples because they won’t tell everyone (or perhaps anyone) they see or meet that they’re a trans couple. They will be seen as “straight” and heteronormative, especially when they have kids.

      Such as this couple here for example:

      https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/12/14/jake-hannah-graf-trans-family-surrogate-daily-mail

      They have the perfect heteronormative “straight” couple pose sitting there on the couch. They’re both transgender individuals but one would not know that from looking at either of them and their heteronormative behaviour. She’s sitting there looking submissive behind him like I’ve seen countless females in straight couples/relationships do where the female is behind the guy (he’s dominant in front of her), and they’re having a baby. Very heteronormative. Society will see them as straight, just as society will see the droves of queers going back in the closet as straight, with some marrying the opposite gender to give that impression. That’s especially true for the queer married couples who are wearing their wedding rings on their left hand because that image per tradition is cemented in people’s minds as a straight marriage: “He’s married to a woman” or “Those guys are married to women” (when they’re really a married gay male couple that the person is looking at) or “She’s married to a guy” when she’s really married to another woman.

      So that was my point in the article and not the many problems that queers/trans continue to face or encounter, which are too many to list here. This was a follow-up article to The New San Francisco: A City of Closet Cases and “A perfectly good queer boy with a wife” and Gay guys are back in the closet and with females and Gay Married Couples: Are you wearing your wedding ring on your right hand?

      Gracias for your comment.

      1. Acorn

        This is the craziest thing I’ve heard but I know it’s for real because I have experience with it too. Think about it – this is the outcome of our movement. Where did things go awry? Me thinks it’s when the corporates got involved and wanted us to be mainstream. That was the start of it, I think. Many queers have lost themselves ever since, watered down, divisive, no sense of community. It depresses me.

        Shocking to me that E in Sunnyvale has no problem with queers stepping back into the closet and ending up in straight-looking arrangements. Some cases IN straight relationships. If she had a problem with it she’d said something about that, and I didn’t pick up that this article was anything that she accused it of being. The same for the comments. It’s always good to hear the truth which is so rare these days no matter how much it hurts. Too bad some people can’t get out of their narrow niche on occasion.

      2. fraser

        hey man, one of the main purposes and goals of the gay rights movement was getting gay people to come out of the closet so i find e in sunnyvale’s post really fucked. what i get from her is that all she cares about is her own thing, trans. she doesn’t care how many gay guys or lezbians go back in the closet which defeats the efforts of our movement and it’s like she protects, er, excuses any trans people by saying she’s cool if trans people end up in trans-straight coupling. pretty damn narrow minded.

    2. Nobody You Know

      E in Sunnyvale wrote –

      >>>>In the five years or so that I’ve been following this site, I’ve never felt uncomfortable or unwelcome here – until now<<<<

      WTF? Seems a bit extreme of a response. Hell I've been on all kinds of sites and have never blinked an eye to whether I was welcome there or not. Who does that? Most sites welcome anybody until the person becomes a problem like a troll. Uncomfortable? Maybe on some far right sites but it didn't stop me from going there if I wanted to see what they were thinking.

  3. FedUp!

    What fuckking madness! How did things get so fucked up. I guess there’s no need for Straight pills today. Didn’t we used to hear people joking about take a pill to make you straight? With these relationship arrangements, it’s the same as taking a straight pill even though the couples remain gay as they were born but living in straight relationships. The gay conversion movement has a major victory. With these couples it’s self induced conversion. Madness!

    The gay wedding ring issue which I’d given no thought to until you wrote about it is another heteronormative aspect of this. I was watching gay porn the other night. It was two guys both had left hand wedding rings on. I didn’t know if they’re married to each other or to women. The way I see it, gay couples wearing their wedding rings on their left hand is tied in to this. They’re seen as straight because heteros do the wedding ring left hand thing by tradition. It’s like a part of gay couples are still in the closet instead of putting that ring on their right hand like that picture you showed in a few of your articles. Even tho gay marriage is legal, whenever I read someone say “I’m married,” the person always means in a hetero relationship….it’s assumed.

  4. Richard and Richard (a gay couple)

    Richard and I have been reading your site for about a year. You have a down to earth style of writing which we enjoy and we know that you’re an accomplished musician. We may have been your neighbors in the Castro. We used to live in the Castro and we’re ashamed to say that we fell for the ‘gay is now mainstream’ and ‘gays can now live anywhere’ line (lie) that Castro residents and merchants were parroting around the Castro just before we left, My boyfriend and I fell for it and that’s why we moved away. That’s not the only reason though. We also moved because our gay friends had become very conservative and we stopped hanging out with them. We felt very alone and lonely. Gay meccas have real advantages which we in hindsight miss. We thought everything everywhere was hunky-dory for queers because of what we were hearing in the Castro about gays being able to live anywhere and gay being mainstream ***until*** we met the face of real angry homophobia right after moving from SF. We moved in right next door to a homophobe! We didn’t know that at the time. We’ve had nothing but problems with this guy. We tried to be friends with him at beginning but didn’t work. He hates “faggots.” That’s what he calls us to our face. There are 3 others just like him on the same street in the same housing subdivision. They’re all close friends hating “the faggots.”

    We didn’t experience homophobia in the Castro, but after leaving we’ve had a major reality check. It’s not pretty out here for queers. Going back in the closet is not the solution. That only adds to the problem. These rednecks have gaydar too. We never told our homophobic neighbor that we are gay but he knows we are.

    We’re blown away to hear what’s happened to San Francisco and the Castro village. We’ve read nothing about any of this anywhere online. We try to keep up with SF. We’d read about how tech had dramatically changed the city but we hadn’t heard any of this….no one talks about it. We cannot for the life of us understand why queers in the city have gone back in the closet. Count us as one gay couple who moved to SF to come out of the closet not go back in. We agree with another commenter that it’s a pendulum thing and it’s definitely swung back in the wrong direction and we don’t see it changing.

  5. David in Breukelen

    Sadly, the gay-queer pendulum has swung back the other way and like a 2-ton piece of cement. You and I care about this but I can’t say that any of my queer friends do. Leaves me feeling distanced from them. Agree with D8’s comment about trans. That’s really an odd one. They look like a straight couple sitting there on the couch at that link. Unbelievable. What’s the point?

  6. castro local

    everyone should now be assumed to be straight* until proven otherwise. even people sitting in gay bars what few gay bars remain. that’s the world we’re living in today. 🙁
    ———-
    *straight:
    born heterosexual
    born gay but in the closet with no intention of ever coming out

  7. D8

    Agree. SF has turned into one fucked up city, didn’t think I’d ever see it happen here but I think it’s happening in other major U.S. cities. I wasn’t aware of the trans marrying trans. That’s one that’s hard for me to wrap my mind around. I was getting into this video series of three gay guys from NYC although they’ve never said they were gay in the vids. Two of the guys I thought were a gay couple. I still think they are but I guess one of them wants people to think something else. In one of their latest videos he was there with his boyfriend and another gay guy (that’s how my gay-dar read him) and one of the guys in the gay couple made this flip comment to the others about ‘I need a girlfriend like that.’ Have to say that completely turned me off. Much, much less interested in their vids now. Reminded me of here. If they’re a gay couple I guess he wants people to think he’s hetero. Another closet case in NYC? Or if he’s really hetero, wanted to shove his straightness in people’s faces. 🙁

Fin. The End.